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Interview By: Francesca Maria
Translated from Italian to English. This interview was originally published in Springs of Revolution.
José Nivoi is a spokesperson for CALP (Collettivo Autonomo Lavoratori Portuali – Autonomous Dockworkers Collective) in Genoa and a member of USB (Unione Sindacale di Base – Grassroot Trade Union). He’s aboard the Global Sumud Flotilla to Gaza and has been instrumental in organizing port blockades against arms shipments to Israel across Italian ports.
Tell us who you are and how you ended up on the Flotilla?
I’m José Nivoi, I’m part of USB, which is the Grassroot Trade Union [Unione Sindacale di Base], and of CALP. I’m the spokesperson for CALP in Genoa, which is the Autonomous Dockworkers Collective [Collettivo Autonomo Lavoratori Portuali].
For several years, we’ve been carrying out blockades against arms trafficking directed at various war theaters, starting with Yemen, which has somewhat defined us, the Kurdistan issue, Libya, and obviously the weapons that are destined for Israel and then used against Palestine.
I ended up here [on the Flotilla] because at the national level, we’ve become a kind of linchpin in the fight against arms trafficking, which has also given rise to other mobilizations in other ports and other sectors. So, we’re very representative of this type of struggle because one of our slogans is precisely to say: we don’t want to work for war.
One of our principles is not to water ourselves down in an attempt to have the highest number of people in our demonstrations, but to have clear words, clear and shareable slogans, and so this element has meant that we, little by little, managed to develop this character that we have today: when we launch a general strike, as seen today, almost a million people, even more, all across Italy are mobilizing in various cities.
Of course, we’ve had a thousand challenges because at the beginning we were born as a militant element within the confederal union, CGIL [Italian General Confederation of Labour], precisely because it was taking a turn, let’s say, too government-aligned in a way, starting with the Job Act, the Minniti decree, which then became the security decree.
From there we split completely by breaking with the CGIL, joining the Unione Sindacale di Base which is no longer a small union because today we see what it can mobilize, but smaller, but nonetheless maintains a fighting spirit, its peculiarity is to represent what workers say and not vice versa like CGIL which today represents more what the government says or what the bosses say rather than what workers want. Just look at the thousands of agreements they’ve written to fire thousands of workers.
So we were born there, by joining USB we found our home, and therefore our very street-oriented way of doing things, breaking out from theory to move on to concrete practice, while having a union that supports you in your strike declarations, in the most bureaucratic aspects, which is necessary, unfortunately I must add, given the laws that exist in Italy, has meant that we have gradually gained authority in the Italian political world, and beyond, because today we can also say we have created the international coordination of ports, within which there’s the Piraeus, there are the Slovenians, the French of Fos-sur-Mer, which is the port of Marseille, the dockworkers of Tangier, the Swedes, Hamburg, that is, we have slowly and patiently built every single piece that today CALP represents, with a lot of determination, a lot of practice, talking to everyone from the dorkiest collective in Italy all the way to even the Pope, we have never shied away from having a discussion, because that’s the point…
I’ll give you an example, the make-up of CALP today is a politically heterogeneous make-up, within it we have everything from the anarchist to the communist— I’m a communist—to the one who comes from the stadium stands of the ultras of Genoa, Sampdoria who however has a strong anti-fascist, internationalist sentiment to those who come from the most diverse backgrounds, but who have a clear understanding of what anti-fascism is, in facts and not just in words, as it is sometimes represented by a certain institutional left.
So let’s say there’s been a whole series of factors, even random ones, that led us to be the collective we are.
How did the decision to call this strike today come about? What’s been the path to building it?
Well, the first blockades in support of Palestine we did in 2021 already. Together with the National Port Coordination, which includes Livorno, Trieste, Naples, a few Italian ports, we blocked a shipment of Italian missiles destined for the IDF, in that case it was going to the port of Ashdod, and that’s where our journey started from.
It began officially with two specific moments, one is when we received a letter from the Palestinian unions where they asked us, immediately after October 7th, to essentially mobilize in support of the Palestinian population given the attacks that Israel was carrying out in the Gaza Strip, and second, with the meeting of a Palestinian trade unionist from the WFTU in Athens, —she is from Jerusalem— where we started trying to create trade union relations, essentially, and so from there we started a whole series of blockades against Israel’s weapons, demonstrations in the port area, which is one of the most important economic centers in Italy, the port of Genoa, in an attempt to block trade going towards Israel.
So I couldn’t even tell you how many blockades and demonstrations we did, but we come from a very long wave of demonstrations and strikes, and now here is also a very personal element that right now I represent, that is, that organizer who has put himself publicly out there, today embarked on the Global [Sumud Flotilla] who wants to bring, or rather break the siege that Palestine has been experiencing for too long, that creates that real emotional connection, between Palestine and Italy. The mobilizations we have been carrying out until recently were totally in support of Palestine and we never backed down; today, the element of the organizer on board who goes into a danger zone creates, so to speak, even greater closeness to that population. I know it doesn’t sound good, but there’s also this element, which honestly should be said…
Well, in some ways, that’s the Flotilla’s strategy, to bring representatives and activists from a whole range of countries to then encourage actions in solidarity, but also in a way to put governments in front of a situation in which there’s a push from below. So, speaking a bit about the Flotilla, what is its composition, what organizations are involved? Who’s on board? Based on what you’ve seen, of course, I know you’re spread all over different boats, but from what you know, from meetings in ports, etc.
Let’s see, in my opinion, the most interesting factor that I’m noticing, and also on my ship, are the Malaysian participants, the Malaysians are really gung-ho about supporting Palestine, I think due to connections to the Muslim and Arab world. They really are, I’m seeing in first person how they express themselves, I ask for a bit of translation because I’m curious, and so the Malaysian side, in my opinion, is the most fundamental aspect of this mission, because they are here in an official role, there are quite a few of them, I can’t tell you how many, but there are really a lot of them spread across all the boats. And they’re doing a good job, for example, I have a Malaysian journalist on board who has I don’t know how many millions of followers in Malaysia, and also this Malaysian influencer called Mohamed, very funny, who is also glued to his cell phone 24/7 talking about Palestine, and every now and then I ask him if I can take a peak at his cell phone, he has something like one million people connected to the livestream every time.
As far as the international composition, I’d say that apart from the Malaysians it’s diverse, we’re talking about Australians, English, Americans, Spanish, Germans, French, there really is representation from almost the entire world, I haven’t seen representation from the Far East parts of Asia, like Chinese or Japanese, I haven’t seen any. At the Italian level- or rather, at the European level as far as trade unions officially here I’ve seen the CGT [Confédération Générale du Travail], us from USB, some members of CGIL who however didn’t come as representatives of CGIL but because they belong to collectives, for example, in Rome, so they came as card-carrying members of CGIL. I’ve seen a representative of OVS for example, and then a whole varied political world, more or less people who knew each other, like the spokesperson who knew the activist from the social center X, so these kinds of connections.
After the flotilla, what are the prospects both for the participants, in particular, participants from some of the Arab countries who not only risk arrest by Israel but potentially also arrest by their own governments once repatriated; what are the prospects for the participating organizations, for the coordinating body of the Flotilla, for CALP – in short, how do you see, the next phase after the end of this journey?
Speaking from my point of view, we are already organizing in Genoa on September 25th and 26th, so this weekend, an assembly of the international coordination where we will try to launch an international strike and more and more ports are joining; today we are around ten at the European and Mediterranean level, but they are contacting us from Australia and from other places too to join, which could be the tool for the defense of those activists who will be arrested, for example, on a boat there is this guy called Jimmy, Irish, who apparently the moment he sets foot again, with two or three kids waiting for him at home, the moment he returns to Ireland he will be arrested, and I didn’t quite understand why because my English isn’t exactly great but he was telling me that he will most likely have legal repercussions, on top of precisely those from other parts of the Arab world, so I think that the 25th and 26th could become a decisive date also for the post-Global [Sumud Flotilla] moment and on what will happen to us to, indeed I will participate online if they don’t arrest me first, so I will try to bring this element into that assembly, where that assembly will launch this international strike as a mobilization in support of Palestine, therefore the day that we are experiencing and seeing in Italy today we would like to see as one unified day at the international level, so I hope we succeed in this enormous undertaking, but I am very hopeful.
Is there participation from some US unions or is there a lack of connection with organizations here, and what we can do to help create some connections?
Certainly we have been in touch with organizations of various kinds…
Community-based rather than trade unions?
Yes exactly. The difference in this type of mobilizations is made by workers, because when they materially stop the economy, they don’t go to work, as happened in America with regards to wage increases when they decided to block the ports to get a raise, the gap caused by inflation, after not even 3 days of strike they told them okay, have it, so that’s the element…
It’s necessary to get out of the dynamic of economic disputes and to enter into a dynamic of political unionism, because the repercussions that we see today as workers due to the war are precisely due to the war, that is, the fact that governments shift a portion of GDP away from welfare, healthcare, pensions, everything that defines society today, to the military sector and therefore sucks resources, it is indirectly impoverishing you. The increase in inflation didn’t happen randomly, it increased because public spending in the military sector has increased, because there are companies that profit from wars, because governments are pushed by these companies that have lobbyists on the inside, and it’s a fucking- excuse my French, but it’s a vicious cycle, so the worker who today lives in a condition of impoverishment it’s because there is all this previous context that drives your impoverishment.
When do we begin to understand that this element in the use of the strike, that it’s useless to focus on the €100 I have to earn this month, but to look at the long term, and that therefore stopping the war today means stopping this sick system, because the impoverishment that you’re experiencing can be stopped by you refusing to work, and that’s when you can reach a turning point.
What we’re demonstrating today in Italy is exactly this, namely the fact that until three years ago I personally paid €320 on a mortgage for my house and today I pay €560 due to inflation — that is my direct impoverishment, not even indirect, directly out of my paycheck. So there’s no point in me asking for a €100 raise when inflation due to the war increased my mortgage by €300. When we start putting things together, from the highest level, the international one, that international policies have repercussions even on the individual workplace, that’s where we can truly make a change.
Today we’ve started holding some solidarity demonstrations in ports and also at consulates, embassies, and so on, in some cities in the United States, we are trying to increase the mobilizations here, which in the last few months have been on a downturn, so can leave us with a messages for the comrades who are organizing here in solidarity with the Flotilla, with Gaza, with the strikes in the Mediterranean?
What can I say, that fighting is beautiful, I have a tattoo here which I’m not going to show because it’s tacky, but fighting means being in love, it’s beautiful to fight, it’s beautiful to win battles for a people who are oppressed or even to improve one’s personal life, so do it seriously, with perseverance, with determination, but always with a smile on your face.
Awesome, thanks a lot, I’ll let you go because you are certainly busy, thank you and let’s stay in touch because here too we’re trying to do some union work which here is very very slow because of the widespread depoliticization, but we have comrades in various unions who for a few years now have been trying to shift some ground on Palestine internally, so it would be good to continue, even after the mission and this phase of mobilizations are over, to try to establish a few more contacts with the unions here in the United States which I feel are a bit absent on global issues.
Francesca Maria, who conducted the interview, sits on the National Political Committee and formerly served as co-chair of Connecticut DSA.
The post From Italian Ports to Gaza: An Interview with José Nivoi on the Global Sumud Flotilla appeared first on Working Mass.
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